Rose in the HOF

If you're a Rose fan or baseball fan in general you have an opinion on Rose's banned from baseball and through rules changed after the fact the HOF.  Here's my 2 cents on it - do I believe he should be in - without a doubt numbers and record don't lie he left everything on the field and anyone that doesn't recognize that is blind.  Now his gambling is a serious crime and I can see how it was seen when he didn't bet on the Reds to win he was signaling they might not have the best chance of winning but he never pulled a player out or did a bad managerial move to effect the game.  So I truly say time served give him his due.

Now I also believe he will never get reinstated by Selig or any other commissioner that answers to the owners.  There is no plus (money) side to baseball to let this happen.  Baseball seems content to roll Pete out when it suits their needs a.k.a. all time team, memorable moments celebration because dollars were on the line it made baseball money to have him there and made baseball look good.  I do believe that a few years after he passes away then baseball might get around to reviewing his case and let the HOF committee vote him in or not but they seem very scared to let him have the mic and give a speech at inauguration day.  Pete has always put the game first and would never embarrass baseball on its grand stage, so I don't know what they worry about.  It would definitely make money for the hall as I will be there when it happens.

The Hidden Rose

While I don't consider any of these "real" Pete Rose cards I do believe Pete is hidden in the background on them.  But because he is either cut way off or so small and out of focus can't tell 100% I won't include them like the 1971 Topps Chris Short card or 1986 Donruss Highlights Eric Davis where it is very clear it is Rose in the background but if you have a very keen eye maybe some imagination you should be able to pick him up.

Rose Hidden Pictures

1963 Rose Rookie Counterfeits

In the late 80's counterfeit Rose rookies showed up in mass almost a perfect crime in that not many people thought of counterfeiting baseball cards beside the T-206 rarities and was a very good job. He however tried to sell 100s at 1 show I'm pretty sure not many people own 100 of his rookie yet alone in perfect condition. I have only owned 2 at 1 time and only have 1 now. But the tell tale signs of the 80's counterfeit is if you hold the card up to a strong light looking at the reverse you can see the 4 circles easily, due to paper stock that was too thin it also has a waxy feeling to them. Also the phony Rose's have a black outline around his cap that is not visible in the real deal. Also there is a white dot below McMullen's cap above his left eye.

I'm a firm believer there are even better copies out there now and even worse ones than the first that is why I would never buy a raw rookie. Even though I dislike grading cards, makes people go for the grade rather than the card, for a high dollar card better safe than sorry and get one that has been thoroughly examined. The typical Rose rookie is very tough to get in 100% centered conditioned so that is the 1st red flag not that they don't exist but very very rare.

A grading numbers run down there are 26 PSA 9 and only 1 PSA 10. 3 BVG/BSG 9 and no 9.5 or 10s. SCG has 11 - 92 8 -96 1 - 98 0 - 100 so high grade examples are super rare.

Autograph Transformation

Pete's autograph has been a pretty stable one over the years but there are differences from when he was a unknown (relatively) rookie to superstar of the 70's and 80's. Below are some examples to show the transformation. His early signature was very rigid no big loops 63-64 style. As he stayed in the league longer and became more popular his autograph changed both for speed and style the P and R became round 65-70. The 70's sigs are much bigger and P and R more oval this seems to hold true to today although as time progressed the oval has become longer. His current signature for "certified" issues has squashed down a bit most likely do to space on the sticker and the fact I'm sure he signs 100s or 1000s of these at a time his hand has to cramp after awhile.

The good news is he is and was a very good signer that seems to be his full time job now so there are not a ton of forgeries out there but there are some from the late 80's that don't match when you really look at the details. And also some earlier signatures but on a newer item just can't happen so always watch for that.

My other collection

I have another side of my collection autographs I started a few years ago because Rose items just don't pop up everyday I wanted and needed a new chase. I have started collecting baseball HOFers but even that is a finite collection when you are not Bill Gates. So I combined my 2 collections into a Rose compilation I chose to get all autographs of pitchers that he got memorable hits off of and all pitchers he got hits off of during the hitting streak. Seemed pretty straight forward none were high dollar pitchers but there are a few very difficult ones that don't sign much weren't in the majors long or have passed on.

For the memorable hits Charlie Williams (2,000th hit) just doesn't sign much and never did my TTM (through the mail) request never returned took along time before one popped up for sale that was authenticated. Also Reggie Patterson (4,191) also never seems to sign and also my TTM went unanswered think he doesn't like the highlight of his career as giving up the tying hit. And of course Eric Show (4,192) has passed on and didn't sign that much during his playing days.

For the streak I was very successful with TTM for almost all of them but Pete Vuckovich not a big signer and Mark Lemongello not a signer at all google him and you'll understand hard to sign when in jail. But he is out and trying to track him down found a friend of his current girlfriend that got me some signed for a small fee.

For my other projects similar to above go to http://4192cards.com/baseball/index_files/favorites.htm

1970 Creative Creation

Most of us have seen the 1970 Creative Creation Box/Booklet and Cartridge but I wanted to show you the movie in the cartridge. While not the greatest quality the player is hand cranked and the light source is the sun I hooked my webcam to the front of the camera turning a 1970 camera into a 20th century computer device.

How I find all this stuff

I wanted to let everyone know what I go through to find all these scans and Pete Rose items. Currently there are 3,028 items displayed on the site I have 14 new items to add this weekend.

I started the site not to catalog everything but to catalog my personal collection so I wouldn't buy duplicate items and it is easier to browse through a website then dig through 7 Rubbermaid tubs of items although I do enjoy doing that also :>.

Then I started chatting with Chuck Lumb after the Reds HOF Pete exhibit and it grew in scoop when he sent some scans of rare 60s items I then started 4192cards.com to catalog what I could.

But to find the items I don't have the scans come in from collectors - Chuck Lumb has an amazing collection and is also the author of The Almost Complete Pete Rose Checklist which came out in 1996 and will hopefully soon be updated. Another collector Gabriel Rivera also has provided some great scans of rare items. I myself have a pretty good size Rose collection that most of the normal items come from I also really like the oddball items and concentrate more on them as I have all the mainstream items except the rare 60s stuff and Topps test issues.

The other majority of scans come in from the web eBay being the biggest. But I also scan google images, bing images, flicker, photobucket, and worthpoint for some of the others. I also check out the card shops in my area (which is Cincinnati) and most have a good Rose selection Steve Wolter at Sports Investment has a great museum/shop of Rose items highly recommend it if you're in the area he has 4192 bat and ball and the corvette Marge gave to Rose hard to beat that collection. I also check out the flea markets and antique malls for other items. I then clean them up as best possible, crop them and figure out what they are and post them.

Here are some other pictures of my collection and yes there are some non Rose items in there but not many.

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